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I personally have a friend who did a STM Malta QROPS with deVere, so far he's down 30% the salesman doesn't work there anymore, hey keep changing his funds around earning more commissions. He was told by deVere that they could passport his QROPS to another domicile after everything had settled down with Channel islands.

What a bunch of scammers this lot are. He said he never gets a straight answer from them.

I don't think one can say don't transfer to Malta as a blanket statement as it is a perfectly valid jurisdiction. There are other firms operating in the market.

I think this is a niche market for the well off, those that have quality advisers and have all their international tax affairs up to date and can afford the extra tax compliance fees that will accrue in Malta.This is not a product for the mass market so caveat emptor.

Bear in mind that the QROPS rules in Malta do not allow self-investment, unlike the UK cousin (Self Invested Personal Pension) which might be more appropriate for sophisticated investors. However, as SIPPs are FSA regulated, only UK IFAs with the appropriate pension transfer permissions should advise in this market.

You are right about the Malta QROPS, problem is because Nigel Green owns a large stake in STM Devere are placing all their clients in this scheme. Definitely wrong for the client if they knew all the implications about DTA also what you've just mentioned about having to submit an annual tax return, who wants to do that?

@ justification- your name must be Justin and you premote Boston Fund Platform right? This fund platform just doesn't have enough decent funds which is why I use a bond and select my own funds. Admittedly BF has over 5,000 funds but how many of those are actually used, not many..

If anyone is reading this that is being told to transfer their pension to Malta, please, for your own sake, don't do it. Look at Hong Kong and walk away from the IFA that's recommending Malta, he doesn't know what he's talking about, typical Devere one would say.

I think the rush to Malta might be dampened by the new Maltese proposals for all QROPS members, whether resident in Malta or elsewhere.

All members, even non Malta residents, will need to complete a tax return every year in Malta. What is that going to cost?

The thing is, that before any pension monies can be taken, the member is going to have to prove where he/she is tax resident or the income won't be paid.

No more hiding under the tax radar for some expats here then is there?

Cracking bit of legislation by the Maltese to stop tax evasion.

Do you work for an offshore insurance group? The discounted funds and protection comments are their standard phrases. If there are discounts, then no doubt the bond is set up on a nil commission basis and the cost savings passed onto the client.Do you think that funds are not chopped and changed within bonds? Do you think that commission is not taken on both the bond and the structured notes within the bond?

I cannot see any justification for using a bond in a QROPS. Do all bonds have proper FX possibilities?

An independent platform on an agreed fee basis with the client, with no commissions being generated on switches, might be a better option for QROPS.

There is lots of justification to using an investment bond, severely discounted funds, lots of protection to name a couple. If you put a clients pension lets say directly linked to a trading platform (as it happens devere have one of these) that has over 5,000 funds + some expensive 4% entry structured notes, it would end up costing the client much more money.

Devere like to do this because they chop and change the funds around which generates more income for Devere at great expense to the client I may add.

Anything Devere, run like a dog!

de Vere Group disappeared from their London Knightsbridge office. Personally I doubt whether - as "Claude", July 12th mentions - that they treat UK clients any better.

After all, as the FSA told me directly they do not come under the FSA umbrella and therefore not under the FSA compensation scheme.

I was not even aware there had been a "cooling off" period when the lying, swindling agent sold me a loss-maker.

STM are part owned by... Wait for it.. Nigel Green. How can Devere be giving impartial independent advice if they are placing you in products they have a vested interest? They do this with their funds which they get paid much higher commissions on also. The STM Malta QROPS is not the right product for many of the Devere customers that they have placed their life savings in, simply because if the country you end up retiring to doesn't have a double taxation agreement with Malta you could end up paying up to 55% tax on any drawdown. The Devere sales Rep probably forgot to mention this right?

They talk about pass prying your QROPS in the future to other QROPS destinations, what a load of B...ocks. They are boiler room scam artists of the highest order. I know this because I was involved in their organization for many years. All their meetings are scripted, this you lean at Malta on the training course before you go to country of destination.

Devere do not pay salaries, in some countries you will get an advance against commissions only, this is monitored very closely because if it looks like you have no business coming in they will not pay you. You have to pay for everything including the toilet rolls, heating, air ***, lighting, office rent, this is all deducted in the office costs they charge you every month. They are the worse commission payers in the industry, you will be left with very little if any money, in fact you will probably owe them money which is like being beholden to the devil.

Which seems to indicate the only reason they ostensibly treat their UK customers fairly is because the FSA says they must. Must decent reputable companies define their own standards and resolution process. Not Devere - they don't care about their customers, they see them simply as a source of one time revenue.

As devere are not a proper IFA firm and only sell unregulated financial products they do not need to disclose commission.

In fact, I know that devere often have the policy docs and statutory cooling off notice sent to the office rather than the client to avoid the client finding out the full plan info (charges/restrictions etc) and avoiding the client sending back the cancellation notice (they cant cancel if they don't have the notice!)

Also lots of these guys switch the underlying funds on a regular basis for further commissions without notifying the clients. Its a licence to print money.

Of course, many of the funds have undisclosed conflicts of interest, as they are invested in companies that Nigel Green (CEO devere)has controlling interests in. Look it up!

Justification was an extra level of protection from the taxman.

To "Answer",

I walked right into that!

What justification was given to customers for having an insurance bond in a QROPS?

I assume the 7% plus 3% plus underlying commission is not something that is flagged up when people sign on the dotted line.

Investment bond 7% commission plus underlying fund commission circa 3% plus QROPS commission circa 3%.

Richard,

Out of interest, since this was mentioned on this thread,what was the justification for having an insurance company investment bond in a QROPS?

@Baldhead Brigade - My mistake, I got Providence Life and Friends Provident mixed up - Friends Provident have beeen around for centuries (since 1832), now trading as Friends Life. lol

We ve tried we been to solicitors in the Netherlands that cost us more money. Its practically ruined my marriage

We ve been to solicitors in the Netherlands.

I believe the dutch authorities are interested in them as well I just want someone out there to help us recover our money, and someone to stop other people being conned out of there savings we are just ordinary hardworking honest people.

@ Cloggies. To answer your question, I would be furious.

My initial point was that some of these postings do not appear genuine. Some will be.

Do you still have the suitability report for the investment recommendations? If you requested safe funds, then this should all be documented and covered in the suitability report. With that you can challenge the advice you were given.

to Jolly Green how would you feel if you have invested £200,000.00 and so far have lost of 55per cent and thats not including their charges

we asked for our money a safe fund.

I hope Spencer Lodge can sleep at night.

There are always two sides to consider, I just think that some of the postings on this site are somewhat less than objective. Possibly competitors muddying the waters, possibly disgruntled ex- employees.

One point. What is the possible justification of having an investment bond in a QROPS? The commission is usually something in the order of 7%, in addition to the commission paid for the investments inside the bond which may be another 3 to 6%. The yield drag will be horrendous. Apart from one or two extraordinary situations, there are no tax advantages of holding a bond in a QROPS and this just adds another layer of charges on the pension fund. To me it makes as much sense as wearing two pairs of underpants!

@ Baldhead. What makes you think Malta will be delisted? I have not read anything that suggests this. The fact is that now HMRC have closed off pension busting in New Zealand and that New Zealand QROPS seem to have somewhat limited investment options, especially compared to a SIPP, a huge percentage of QROPS are now heading to Malta.

As for the future, and the Finance Act 2013 that may hold further QROPS regulation, anyone got a crystal ball?

Providence Capital been around for centuries? What planet are you on?

You really were sold to by Devere salesman if you believe that. I have it on good authority that Malta will soon be struck off HMRC's list for QROPS. STM is part owned by Nigel Green which Devere sales staff don't disclose, how can this be independent financial advise? Same with their funds that Nigel Green has an interest in.

Providence Capital was set up by Sovereign Group, they are now encouraging Americans to purchase land in some remote Caribbean island whereby they qualify for a passport (tax avoidance) for the purpose of opening offshore bank accounts and investing. How can you have confidence in a company promoting this? Openly promoting dishonest dealings. If you have Providence Capital QROPS chances are your funds are all on the Devere fund platform with a couple of devere structured notes thrown in for good measure.

Good luck to you my friend because you will need it. My advice to you is get your pension as far away from Devere as possible.

Hi,

@Bart: I didn't know that STm was partially owned by deVere actually. But on the flip side, you did say recently and my transfer was about 3 months ago ..... Not really bothered though to be honest, the bond is with Providence Life who have been around centuries and as far as I know deVere don't own any of them.

@Jolly Green: I assume you are referring to me as the happy client'? Well, I was on the site for something else as it happens but browsing around I started seeing negative things about deVere. I was a little concerned as I had obviously dealt with them recently so starting reading the comments. I felt I should comment on this one as I had a relevant personal viewpoint on the issue. Is that ok with you? I thought the site was about making informed decisions, so surely both viewpoints are worthwhile....

Oh and regarding your remarks on seeking tax advise, I did that too as my deVere consultant said he was not a tax expert and I should seek independant advise on that aspect. As long as I don't return to live in the UK, my pension payments are sound. If I do go back I might have to pay HMRC Income Tax.

All I was trying to say was that all companies have good and bad people and to maybe judge them on an individual basis rather than tar a company with the same brush. Just look at Bob Diamond and Barclays - Because he is a ***, would you boycott Barclays? lol

I note Richard's comment about STM.

The owner of de Vere has a 24% shareholding in STM, recently acquired. I am sure that this was diclosed to you at point of recommendation.

They are all ex devere and are owned by Nigel Green CEO of devere. Dont expect them to be unbiased!

A young colleague has been invited to an interview with a recruiter from the DeVere Group in Dubai. Apparently they have a subsidiary recruitement company called Forefront Recruitment that handles the hiring.

The interview will be with one of the directors in Dubai and for a 'consultant'/sales role. Has anyone had any experience with this recruitment company that is hiring for DeVere? How to find out if these guys are legit and decent?

We have read up on alotof the negative reviews ad complaints about DeVere but would appreciate any info about this recruiter and from anyone who has been to an interview with them.

I think a lot of the comments on this site are from people with some vested interest or other. It is therefore hard to differentiate between the genuine posts and the others.

I find it odd that a "happy" client would come onto a site called Pissed Consumer and compliment the service. A happy customer would not be searching for this site.

QROPS are an extremely complex area of advice and only the professionally qualified pension adviser- with specific qualifications to undertake pension transfers from UK schemes- should be involved. It is crucial to involve a tax specialist in the country of intended retirement, prior to moving pension monies.

Not understanding the impact of DTAs is unbelievable- if that really happened! If it did, go find a lawyer or move it back to a SIPP in the UK.

Hello Anonymous,

Sorry you seem to have had some issues with devere as I have also dealt with them over my UK pension and had it moved into an STM scheme in Malta.

I guess, like everything it depends on the individual and the guy I saw was very helpful, not pushy and gave me good advice. My pension has grown in value and I am based in South Africa so do not get charged any tax on my income based on SA laws.

Sounds like a case of bad person as opposed to bad company. And why "Anonymous"? If you are putting a bad review out there, at least have the conviction to back is up with your name!