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Devere Shanghai =bad bad bad.

Summary- my wife and I were told our policy had flexibility (i.e.- withdraw funds up to 50% of net worth at any time in ten working days) when in fact the policy Devere Shanghai sold us has no flexibility. Fees? Exorbitant! 2400 USD per year! Not in writing or in any literature.

You thinking about using Devere as your broker for FPI? Get every detail you can possibly think of in writing. Read on for our sob story and beware Devere Shanghai. They are sales-man. They are NOT financial advisors, not friends, and in my opinion, not to be trusted.

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My wife and I opened a ‘retirement / college’ fund account in 2012 through DeVere in Shanghai, China. One of the good points of the product our broker recommended to us was it’s ‘flexibility’, according to our Shanghai Devere broker. "At any time (after the initial 18 month start-up period) you can withdraw up to 50% of the funds in the account for any reason and receive the funds within 10 working days." He knew that was a sales-closer for us. My wife and I wanted that flexibility. He said it did. We signed. 18 months went by.

We had an emergency in the family and needed to withdraw some funds. We contacted our broker at DeVere Shanghai multiple times via email and phone, even had him over for dinner twice and explained that we needed to withdraw 10,000 USD of our holdings (less 50%). We were ignored. After 2 months, we finally were able to set up an appointment at the DeVere office in Shanghai. We met with our broker at which time he asked us ‘why’ we wanted to do withdraw funds (like it’s any of his bloody business), and that we ‘shouldn’t’ withdraw funds as this product wasn’t made for this type of flexibility. In the end he agreed to let us withdraw a paltry 5% of our policy’s net-worth. We were shocked and frustrated. We decided to go with this investment because we were directly told in no uncertain terms that we could pull funds up to 50% at any time after the initial 18 months. We knew that we would need to do this for our girls’ college education expenses and of course in cases of emergencies. We felt comfortable investing our money knowing that we had access to some of our money throughout the life of the product for these two reasons (college tuition and emergencies). We even spent time working out a tiered plan with our broker (i.e.- in 5 years, withdraw to pay tuition, in ten years, withdraw to pay tuition, etc…). This plan along with the figure we wanted as a final goal for retirement was what determined how much we would contribute every month.

A total farce.

We asked DeVere how much we were being charged for their services. It took our broker 6 weeks to provide us with an arbitrary verbally spoken (un-written) answer- "about 2400.00 USD" for the first 18 months, and similar charges annually no matter how small a monthly deposit might be for the length of the investment (which is different from what we were told by our broker initially which was that "the charge after the first 18 months would be $120 annually". Those charges never appeared in a statement or on our credit card that we used for payment. They just pulled it from our ‘funds’, is how our broker phrased it. "You’ll never see it," he said. "It’s built in." When pressed, the arbitrary figure popped up. They cannot show us how they got it and won’t put it in writing.

Again, we were shocked. NONE of this is mentioned in our agreement or the policy paperwork that we were given and signed off on. We asked our broker at DeVere Shanghai for an itemized list of annual service fees and any other ‘charges’. To this day they have not provided us with one. In the end, DeVere Shanghai gave us verbal, un-documented, arbitrary amounts. I’ve gotten a very clear feeling that they have no clue or more than likely simply do not want anyone to know. They hide their service fees as much as they can. They are NOT transparent with their fees. DeVere has never showed us ‘how’ they came up with their figures. Nothing is in writing. No receipt. No itemized charges. Magical figures pulled from the air. Not acceptable.

We asked to close the account. DeVere Shanghai told us that we would surrender almost all of our savings and the majority of our earnings if we were to do so. It took them 5 weeks to figure that out and get back to us. Again, none of this is in writing in our policy. Nowhere does it state in the policy given to us by DeVere, or the Friend’s Provident literature, that in closing the account we would forfeit our entire investment and savings. No-where. Those words do NOT exist in any paper work provided.

Of course we don’t want to lose our savings. We asked if we could stop payment for a time. The broker said that that could be arranged. They would contact us. They have not contacted us but, as of now, Devere has not charged us for the month of March or April 2014 but again, nothing is in writing. We have requested a document from DeVere stating that we requested a ‘holiday’ from payment but again we have been ignored. Nothing is signed. Nothing is in writing for this and we fear other charges or financial repercussions.

I wrote Friend’s Provident in London and asked for answers to the questions below.

In a nutshell our experience with Devere in Shanghai has been horrible. The *** is the guy who sold us this product walks around our school as a community volunteer, rubbing shoulders with others trying to groom future sales. I want to stand up and shout his name but I am not doing that. Why slander his name when it won’t accomplish anything? At this point it's a 'he said vs. he said' situation. Best thing is, dear reader, if you regard my complaint with any seriousness to simply avoid Devere Shanghai completely. Then maybe management will deal with their own weaknesses in their own ways as they see a loss of sales.

We are in communications with FPI in London trying to sever Devere from our product. At least in that regards we don’t have to pay Devere a penny for services un-rendered.

Avoid Devere Shanghai. If this is the best they can do then they deserve absolutely no business from anyone.

We requested the following from FPI in London. We are in the midst of determining how to self-manage our FPI account. Blessings to those willing to read through my long-winded diatribe.

- Complete breakdown of fees and annual charges of our investment. We want to know that if we have ‘X’ amount in our portfolio, then what is the ‘Y’ amount that Friends’ or a broker will charge per year.o Decreased pay-in: what is the procedure? What are the changes in annual fees? o Increased pay-in: How to increase our monthly contribution or add a lump-sum contribution? Procedure? Costs? Changes in annual fees?o Hiatus- are there options to take a holiday from payments? What are those details? What are the changes in annual fees? Can we get something in writing?

- Self managed vs. managed. o Self managed? • What are the practical functions we have to self manage our investment, such as a change of Funds, decrease or increase monthly pay-in, and funds- withdrawal? • What are the differences in annual charges between self-managed or broker-managed? • What are the costs to any changes we make through self-management?- Flexibility options- details on withdrawing funds.o How much? Include both minimum and maximum amounts.o When? Time period(s) withdrawals can be made.o Time from a request to seeing the money in our personal bank account?o How to withdraw? Procedure?o Complete costs, if any, associated with withdrawals.

Devere are the 'Wolfs of international investments scams'. You saw the movie Wolf of Wall St?

This is DeVere Group & most of their associated companies like PIC, DeVere & Partners. They run their opperation like a well run boiler room scam. Great glossy website, nice brochures, global coverage. There are only a handful of people (if that) in each Devere office that have been with Devere over 3+ years & have any creditable financial qualifications. For the majority it's like a revolving door with 3, 6 & 9 months being pivotal moments. Most of the Devere staff will tell you out & out lies about their financial qualifications & work history to make themselves LOOK CREDIBLE. They lean a 4 page script back tonfront which is designed to emotionally break you down into handing over 50+ % of you international expat wage package. The retirement plan that you need to save so hard for, they will tell you all the money can be taken out after 12-18 months (all lies).

If it's anything Devere then STAY WELL CLEAR!!

Devere are viewed as an international JOKE in the financial world. Some of their Managers have personally been locked up abroad for previously running boiler room scams (fact). These are the kind of people who work in their company so you can now see where all the ingrained lies come from.

Devere claim to have strategic relations with big American Banks (some of those just been fined millions of $'s for bad practice). This then gives an excuse to upfront charge you 4% to enter their 'unique invesments'. Reality is they take 10-12% for your investment, WHO DO YOU THINK PAYS FOR THAT?

Nigel Green part owns a Malta based QROPS trust which they lock your UK Pension into (READ THE SMALL PRINT). It might sound like min fees... Your money will then be invested into their own underperforming white labelled funds which are almost guaranteed to go backwards.

Devere write internet blogs about 'devere scams' in an attempt to deflect you from seeing the true extend of client/ex employee feedback which has worked its way on to the net.

A BBC Panorama investigation into high commission and administration charges levied by one Nigel Green and the many companies he operates, one in particular which keeps getting negative worldwide publicity, deVere Group. Just google Devere scammers to see the truth about this shoddy outfit. Simon Pratt one of their recently resigned Directors is is hiding from the Hong Kong Tax authorities.

Spencer Lodge another disgraced Director who renagged on a charity ball bid to help Elton John's Aids Foundation. He is just about to embark on opening a international offshore brokerage up in Dubai of all places. As if Dubai didn't have enough already! DeVere currently have three offices fleecing expat's of their life savings.

These people should be on SFO most wanted list for crimes against hard working expat's. There are more names to be added to the list of international thieves of which there are many within the deVere Group.

Be warned, stay clear of the glossy deVere website, & smooth talking salesman who will give you a word perfect scripted meeting. All deVere meetings are scripted to carefully push you into an expensive front loaded retirement policy.

I went on the course. Interview, Joined an office in Europe and then left sharpish. Here is why.

I went to the presentation for devere and I have to say Nigel Green was mega enthusiastic about devere. He did lay it on the line about it being commission only and hard work, but he also said that I would be guaranteed two appointments a day, a coordinator when I arrived at my office and 50K in the bank within 10 weeks. I almost believed him, which was naïve and ***.

Next I had an interview was with a guy who said he was the former coordinator for Nigel Green. He was a real *** and I was a bit miffed as I had travelled a long way to Birmingham for what was in essence a 10 minute chat and a *** aptitude test for 10 yr olds, he was really only interested in whether I had the money to fund myself while abroad and that I was breathing.

Next I went on the course. It was mainly based on learning a sales pitch. I was stunned at the lack of financial training given. It was just a comedy sales course about learning a sales pitch to lead a customer into saying "˜yes' .

It would be almost impossible to fail the course. My trainer gave everyone the answers to the final day tests. The trainer on my last day sat down and he called the manager of my office and confirmed I had passed the course and that I would have a coordinator on arrival.

I started as an IFA not a coordinator. I arrived at my office a couple of weeks later. There were terrible morale issues from the start. Staff were coming and going all over the show, arguing and shouting. There was unbelievable racial abuse towards one black and one asian coordinator by the managers. I was told on the training course I would get help with finding accommodation but when I arrived I was simply chucked a couple of rental website links and told to get on with it. Contrary to what I was told at the presentation, interview and by the trainers, I was told by my office manager I would only get a coordinator after a couple of months and in the meantime, I was handed a list of 100 or so people to cold call and get some appointments for myself. After I had spent the 100 names I was to then find my own clients and was offered no help from anyone apart from some sympathy from some of the other guys in the same boat.

I was told by my manager that I would have to contribute towards office costs which I had no idea about before I arrived. I was told that the training course was free but my manager told me that I had to pay an additional 5% of my commission away on my first few deals to pay for the cost of the course and hotel. Most of the guys in the office said you would only get support once you started earning. It wasn't a good atmosphere. Most just felt they had been sold up the river and everyone was backstabbing everyone else. Some of us newbies would go to the pub after work and laugh about how we were tricked, honestly, you couldn't make it up.

I left devere within a short period because of all the deceit. Ok, all companies make things look a little brighter to get you on board but devere are n a different league and I had a problem working for a company that was happily willing to deceived me from the very beginning starting with the MD in that presentation. This might be the problem; the deceit comes from the top down. This isn't a company you can trust.

The final straw was watching as the manager and a so-called IFA laughed came back from an appointment having taken some guy for 10K in commission for a plan he didn't need and (as they pointed out with more laughs) was underperforming anyway. I didn't think there were really people like that but devere had plenty of them.

Now don't get me wrong, there were one or two guys in that office earning good money but in all honestly, even they agreed with me that within devere there was a culture of lies and deception and you had to put your conscience away in a locked room because you were taking clients for a commission rollercoaster ride. Most people were struggling big time and some had some frightening financial problems spending lots but not earning. Remember devere give you nothing, you pay for everything and some people didn't want to let go because they kept thinking the next deal was just around the corner. I met one guy who had spent near 15K chasing his illusive next sale! During my short spell 7 IFAs left and 6 coordinators walked all broke.

I spent about 3K on my trip and didn't make a bean. I had already decided it was gambling money, set my limit and I was prepared to lose it if it went wrong. I blame myself more than anything for not questioning some of the info I was given which always sounded a bit iffy. The trouble is you are blinded by the thought of earning all that money and it distorts your reasoning, but as one of the guys said to me "If you don't believe anything you are told, then you wont be disappointed'.

My advice for what it is worth is that for a chosen few it will be a risk worth taking but proceed with extreme caution and only do this if you have money you are willing and prepared to lose if it doesn't work out. Whether you make it or not, this isn't your average IFA business in fact it's not an IFA business it's just a sales outfit in IFA clothes. If you think you are walking into a professional IFA company, think again, it's just a direct sales company selling financial products that are poor performing and high paying in commission. Remember the products they sell abroad are banned in the UK. Ask yourself why.

So if you do go for it you have a 10% chance of making money and 90% chance of going broke but if you do want to make it, be sure you leave your morale's at home because you won't need them at devere

Provide as much information as possible, you will not be able to edit your review but you will be allowed to add on to it if you create an account during the submission process.

I wish I could have found this site before letting those lying cheating *** anywhere near my pension. I have since found out that I was fed a pack of lies by the Devere salesman.

I have seen my pension plummet in value because it's been put in investments that Nigel Green has a hand. To top that off they've put my pension in Nigel Green s Malta company STM where I will be liable to pay considerable tax when I start taking my benefits, this is because the country I am retiring to doesn't have a double taxation agreement with Malta.

This and many other important things I have since found out, the salesman forgot to mention.

Take my advice for what it's worth-do not entertain anyone from that dreadful company, they just tell you what they think you want to hear-period.